The Quiet Exodus Is Quiet No More – Thank You Glenn Greenwald!

Back at the end of February, I wrote a post about people “fading away” from some of the more prominent “progressive” sites, principally Daily Kos.   I’d noticed that it was happening because I was one of the people who’d done just that.   As I said back then,

I remember diarists who were regulars  on the Recommended List there  when I started that I hadn’t seen in a long time.  People who had commented regularly – even obsessively – were a somewhat distant memory.   I couldn’t remember when I’d last seen a comment from them.

Those of us who disagree with the particular notion of purity being promulgated will fade away from there.  We’ll appear somewhere else.

Since that time, others also left.  Some I knew about, but most of them I didn’t.  There weren’t any big “Goodbye Cruel World” postings there which would attract attention to it, with people sending links around Twitter and other sites going “hey, look at this!”  It was like I said, a quiet exodus.  People were deciding that it wasn’t for them, and picking up and going somewhere else,  rather than make a fuss about it.

Which was how it went until Glenn Greenwald shot off a tweet, which had unintended consequences.

He called attention to one of the people who had departed DailyKos,  Blackwaterdog, whose departure had been noticed by a number of people, but not as many as suddenly learned of it through his inept shot at Blackwaterdog.

If the purpose had been just to denigrate and minimize Blackwaterdog,  it failed miserably.   Instead of minimizing her, her blog became popular.  Even more unintended consequences set in.  You see, there were a number of other blogs which had been created by ex-members of Daily Kos, most of whom were “pragmatic progressives.”  In the furor, they began to get noticed as well.    Their traffic increased dramatically.

How dramatically?   Very.  I can look at the traffic stats for this blog, and I can tell you when he did it.  The graph looks like it ran into a cliff – one day, I’m doing my “normal” traffic, which had been holding fairly steady for months, the next I’m seeing ten times that and it stayed that way.

I’ve talked to others, and they’re seeing big jumps as well.   But even more than just getting viewers, something else is happening.  People are popping up on these sites saying “Oh, good, I’ve been hoping to find a place like this!”

With those new commenters, even more links come in, and as I said back in February, the people who left are reappearing.   They didn’t “disappear,” really, they just went elsewhere.  Now they’re being rediscovered in their new places.

Thanks, Glenn, for calling attention to it!   It might have taken a while for everyone to notice, if you hadn’t.

The “quiet exodus” is no longer quiet.  It’s getting getting louder, and it’s coming back.



Filed under Humor, Politics

70 responses to “The Quiet Exodus Is Quiet No More – Thank You Glenn Greenwald!

  1. majii

    I think some people were afraid of writing GBCW diaries because many of them were highly ridiculed by the DK purists, hide-rated, and the diarists insulted in every way possible. I never thought any democratic-leaning people could be so mean and cruel, but the DKos purists quickly disabused me of that idea. I refuse to put any more money into Kos’ pocket by visiting his site. I guess the DK purist posse never thought that some of us would get fed up with their antics and leave, but they thought wrong. I see that it was announced today that DK4 is up and running. I’m not going there, either.

    • They did miss the point of some of the GBCW diaries, which were calling out some very important problems with the site. The problem was you also had idiots like the Shiznit who seemed to GBCW every other week. I think two things happened when BWD set up her new blog – first was that her blogroll let other people know that there were other sites, and Greenwald called attention to hers. 🙂 As I said in my earlier post, everyone is linking to the people who used to be there, so now there’s a new (old) group returning. 🙂

      • Slownomad

        I found my way here (and the other “pragmatic” blogs) via a rec-listed post on DK that specifically called out where people had gone. I quickly went and bookmarked all those and then deleted DK from my favorites and haven’t been back since. As someone else said, I don’t want to give Markos the Click. I also didn’t GBCW because there’s no point. No one really cares and a GBCW seems to me a parting shot (except you come back to read it) and a place to get abuse heaped on you by those with whom you disagree along with some “attaboys” from those with whom you agree. It doesn’t do anything but keep the toxic dynamic over there going.

        I assume DK and others will calm down a bit at some point. I hope I don’t ever return, though. I’m much more calm since I haven’t been back there. Life doesn’t seem like a never-ending stream of crises. Talk about Shock Doctrine! I think some really thrive on that.

        • It may calm down, but I tend to doubt it. The problem with letting the purists – or frustrati – take over is that they continually find something to be angry about. They’re anger junkies. I’ve actually seen one scream her fool head off about the President doing something that he didn’t. In other words, if they can’t find something real to be angry about, they’ll make shit up to be mad about.

          • Liberal Librarian

            It’s a very adolescent type of behavior. Reacting to every minor slight, not seeing things in a grander scheme of things. I remember being on a high horse through most of my teens and twenties, and that iteration of me would’ve fit in perfectly on some of those sites. Now I’m 41, and I don’t want a revolution. I want things to improve, bit by bit, even if it takes a while, because while it may not be as sexy as storming the ramparts, it’s a hell of a lot more constructive, and ultimately more successful.

          • Exactly. I became much more pragmatic the more experienced I became. It’s not that I don’t still have ideals, but the notion that it was going to be quick and easy was something I had to learn. That, and that the “perfect” solution doesn’t turn out to be quite so perfect in reality.

      • Dorothy Rissman

        Norbrook, I am loving your new front page.

        I am so happy for you to be surging in the number of people responding to your work.

        “Oh, good, I’ve been hoping to find a place like this!”
        That is exactly how I feel.

        Keep writing else too.

  2. Mary


    I stayed longer out of habit, and because of some oscillating personal issues (some good, some bad). It’s hard to get into a new community online when you need to devote more time and focus to RL. So it was least resistance.

    And I also thought that staying through the election cycle was reasonable. But after it became clear that they learned nothing from the incessant shredding of Dems and the subsequent outcome, it was time to break with it.

    That’s my story.

    • Many years ago, I learned that hard way that some people just will not be taught. So, I don’t waste my time on them, I focus on the ones who can be. I think over the next year – and definitely heading into 2012 – the purists will marginalize themselves even further.

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  4. lilaf1

    I left before GG’s infamous tweet but he did do wonders for getting people back together again and helping others, who didn’t know where everyone went, to find each other. As the polls continually show, the line taken at DKos is not the majority opinion of liberals or democrats and the bullying and negativity is just too much for a lot of people to take. So thanks GG for helping us gather at new sites and get our voices heard above the din eminating from the perpetually angry.

    • I thought I’d found most of the “formers” out there, but as it turns out, there were more that have cropped up since then that I wasn’t aware of. I knew about BWN, TPV, and BWD’s sites, but I also found the “Blogistan Polytechnic Institute” (Morning Feature on DK) has moved off, and is now on its own site, and a few others. Again, no real fuss made, but it’s obvious that people decided it was time to pack up and move.

      • revgerry

        anyone else having trouble logging in to WordPress? Wanted to register at BPI.

        • It’s not WordPress, it’s the site. A lot of sites use the WordPress software (it’s free and open source), and you have to register for their sites. BWN and BPI will e-mail you a password when you register. 🙂

        • revgerry – glad to see you got in at BPI Campus. Others have complained about the registration process but it is the WordPress default signup.

          Trust me … eventually it works.

          • People get confused because (like here) uses (duh!) WordPress software, but other sites use the same software – so they think they should be complaining to WordPress about it. 🙂

            Nice to see you here, JanF! As you can see, I still lapse into the pootie & woozle stuff. 😛

          • I can’t seem to reply to you, Norbrook, but yes I noticed you lapsing into the P&W stuff … and I love it! One of my favorite times was riffing with you and bubbanomics in the P&W diaries … seeing who could out-pic each other. You always won, if I recall. 🙂

          • Ah… you used a different e-mail address, so it popped in as a “new commenter.”

            I just happen to have a huge collection of those pictures. Massive, inordinately large, I need to get a life level.

          • Yeah, I have an email address for BPI and one for DKos and for some reason it pops up a different one when I open a new comment.

            WordPress … love it and hate it.

  5. TrumpDog

    I was a lurker at DFox, more regular during the ’08 primary. It was a site that would be the first I pulled up in the morning and the last I’d peruse before going to bed. Over a course of time (within this past year), I started to notice a shift in mood there. It got to be like a roller coaster reading there; some good days, excellent diaries and positive calls to action. Then there were days where every other posting was doom, gloom and ” what-Obama-aint-done-that-he-should-have-because _____ said-so”, During the bp oil spill crisis, it got really bad. And frustrating because these are people that should know better but lost their fucking minds believing any and every innuendo and smear about the president.
    Then this past month, it got unbearable. Mind you, I’d been leaving that site off and on, but would go back because I thought the intent was to elect Democrats and combat the right wing. I finally realized they are no better than the right wingers. I finally had enough when I realized the site took a nasty, toxic turn and it was just depressing going there. Who needs that? Plus how they did BWD was disgusting. This, from people who claim to be “reality based”.

    I am happy to say I have not visited DFox in about a week or so. I have no inclination to either. It’s just not worth it. I’ve found better, more fruitful and positive places (yours, weeseeyou, ThePeople’, theobamadiaries, etc) to visit and I can say I feel a lot better.
    Thanks for providing a sane and reasonable site. 🙂

    • It’s always hard to “break the habit,” and it wasn’t until I left that I realized just how entangled I was with various projects and communities over there. I was doing the page coding and scheduling coordination for the Haiti relief diaries, wiki editing on that, andI was in several communities. So it wasn’t a “clean break,” because I had to pass things off, try to say my good-byes in a nice way, and so on. I still ended up getting dragged back for some reason or another for a while, so it really took almost 4 months to be in a position to make the “final” break. I was lucky in some ways, in that my workload went through the roof right about then, so I really didn’t have the time to do much, which made it that much easier to say “that’s it.” 🙂

      • TrumpDog

        That’s it, it was indeed breaking a habit.
        I think sometimes we can get addicted to the outrage and anger and we can feed off it. And really, some anger can spur us into action. However, I wasn’t seeing much action in that community other than depressing the spirit and making me say to hell with it. I realized the site became toxic instead of helpful. I also began to notice my mood would change when reading that site; I became less optimistic and hopeful.
        It was nice when there was at least some balance (i.e. Blackwaterdog to counter the negativity). However for some reason, many posters could not stand the idea of a positive Obama diary on that board and moved to shut her down. They succeeded.

        It will be up to us to continue forward because the DFoxers, DUers etc have given up and would rather talk about defeating our president rather than countering the right wingers.

        • In my opinion, they let the FDL and DD groups take over the site, and they did it on purpose. I know they had several reasons for that, none of them related to being able to make real changes.

          • onomastic

            Norbrook, someone just posted a link to your site at BWD’s and here you are!

            This is wonderful honey!
            I’m so happy to find you and in such pleasant surroundings. 🙂

            Great work and love the piece. We’re all coming together aren’t we? 🙂

          • Yup. 🙂 This blog has been here for a year, it’s just getting more “noticed” now. 🙂 The rest of the gang are over at Blue Wave News ( I write there as well) or The People’s View. Nice to see you again!

  6. makesense4tulips

    Im new to your site, i appreciate your work, diaries and your civil opinions. I like to go where i can learn from others and not condem. So thank you for opening your site for us searching for a place to just have a nice conversation with good people.

    • You’re welcome! This is my personal blog, I also do more “reasoned” blogging over at BlueWaveNews, and you can also check out my blog roll for some good sites. Some are not “liberal” sites, but they’re interesting. 🙂

  7. taiping1

    I logged in to dkos multiple times per day from 2008 until the last election but have wondered whether it was taken over by right wing trolls or whether the doom and gloom, racist, anti-Obama tilt was a business decision. In any case I found BWD, the Obama diaries, this site, Blue Wave News, Eclectablog, WSY through blog rolls and links and feel that these sites are the community that will help re-elect President Obama and continue the slow process of creating a more just society. I give links to all my patients who are similarly committed. I also love the moderation. Can’t stand the pollution on sites like huffpo and politico.

    • TrumpDog

      I definitely think there are some right wing trolls at DFox, Sad thing, a lot of the “professional left” are adopting their language as a means to attack the president.

    • revgerry

      I also thought it must be right wing trolls who had taken over; no Democratic ADULT could possible be that clueless.

      I am grateful for much that I learned in the early DK years, and very grateful to have a new more positive blogging community to be part of now. This is too important to play games with.

      • Well, sometimes you’d be surprised. 🙄 I remember when I was in college, we had a small group of Communists, who were very, very passionate about it, to the extent that their ability to ignore various realities was …. astounding. However, in the years since then, I’ve found that there are people who never grow out of that stage. (sigh)

        • Slownomad

          Very much this. I remember being around a lot of hardcore leftists in my high school and college days. And they could be just astoundingly in-your-face mean and nasty. I was seeing more of that at DK than I thought possible. Hard ideology. Like a brick wall.

          I remember walking down a street in Boston with my husband (who’s from Oklahoma — I’m from Boston) and we were acosted by some hard core college leftwing ideologue hawking something. I don’t even remember what it was. But my husband said “no thanks” and the guy just lit into my husband and accused him of liking to kill kids or something outrageous and insane. I just ignored him. My husband wanted to punch him out, but stayed with me on the walking on ignoring the guy.

          Why is it that I can do that more easily in real life, though, than online? You saw those same kinds of ideological bullies every day on DKos in the last year or so. Is it that “someone is wrong on the Internet!” dynamic that made me want to say something equally snarky & nasty back or put up a fight? Anyway..

  8. creolechild


    As I told Deaniac, it’s good to have alternative sites where discussions can be held that don’t dissolve into name calling, mean-spirited comments, and general chaos just because someone has a different opinion. Keep up the good work!


  9. catdevotee

    Thanks for starting this site, Norbrook. The communities were always appealing at DK; the breadth of knowledge and experience was amazing. That’s what kept me going back to DK daily for years, even after I was turned off by the constant “pie wars”. A few weeks ago, it just got too much for me – the negativity and the name-calling.

    I am very active in my local Dem Party, looking for constructive ways to enlarge the “big tent” and to move attitudes to the left. I’m looking for an on-line community which wants to support constructive real-world action to help move our country forward.

    • catdevotee

      Oh, and the pooties and woozles are good too!

    • Welcome. 🙂 I’d suggest BlueWaveNews, where we do have a series of articles about “rebuilding the party,” and Deaniac’s blog as good places to start. At BWN I do my deadly serious analysis of what is, and offer suggestions. Here, I do the pootie & woozle stuff and take swipes at things that irritate me. 🙂

  10. Nathan Katungi

    Your site is really refreshing. I thank BWD for referencing you on her blog. As a senior citizen whose experience span from JFK-LBJ to President Obama, I am really thankful that you, BWD, and other pragmatic “progressive” Democrats, are standing up for reality based politics. President Obama is a human being, and, like all of us, he is not perfect. But he has been working tirelessly to clean up the mess left to him by Republicans. He does not deserve the relentless attacks from the so called progressives, while he tries to fend off vicious attacks from the know-nothing right wing of the Republican party. Reasoned criticism of the President is fine. What is not acceptable is the unrelenting demonization of this president, simply because he has not fulfilled the 100% pure agenda of the those who claim to be the spokes person of the Democratic base.

    • TrumpDog

      What’s insulting is they claim their name calling, insults and denigration of the president is “holding his feet to the fire”.
      Like saying he has no balls, is a sell-out, hates gay individuals, is weak and an empty suit is somehow being helpful. 🙄

    • Agree 100%. I’ve gotten to the stage of life (darn) where not only do I have some perspective, I have a distaste for ideologues. As a number of us have pointed out, the President didn’t run on their pure agenda. At no point did he say he was.

      Looking back, the candidates who ran in the primary who were more “pure” from their perspective got almost no votes in the primaries. They were very much fringe candidates even in the Democratic Party. Even in the mid-term, if you look at what they did, they failed miserably at fielding candidates. So where were they in terms of flexing their “muscles?” That’s the reality gap they have. They don’t seem to be able to do the math, and realize that at best, there’s 10% (and probably much less) of the Party which falls into their camp.

      I have yet to have any President or elected official who has done everything I would have done or wanted done. If I can get most of it, I’m happy. Reasoned criticism is one thing, we can all think of something we’d do differently, or priority we’d like changed, and make a case for why that should be. Screaming attacks not only don’t accomplish the goal, they’re counter-productive in the long run. Which is what they’re really accomplishing – giving a lot of Democrats a distaste for them.

  11. mali muso

    I am really grateful to have found these blogs. I had been a regular lurker at DK since around the time of the presidential primaries. Reading the action diaries got me motivated enough to go down to the local Obama campaign office and I ended up being an integral part of that office, volunteering each and every day up through the election. I counted on DK to bring me the news, keep me connected with other like-minded Dems and to fire me up with enthusiasm and hope. Since the election, it’s slowly gone downhill and the last few months have been dramatically worse. After my home internet went down, I went on a forced vacation and found that my mood improved a lot. Not battling the scorn, the vitriol and the downright vicious racism…it made me rethink why I was going there anyways. And now that I’ve found your blog, BWN, People’s View, BWD, etc. I find I don’t need that place for news. I do continue to visit on Tuesdays and Fridays for Black Kos; it’s too good to miss.

    President Obama has behaved exactly as I expected when I campaigned and voted for him. He’s calm, measured, rational and above all, pragmatic. In my dream world, we would have enough votes to pass more progressive legislation, but I’m realistic enough to know that in the current environment, perfection isn’t possible. Given the state that our country was left after the disaster of Bush, the dearth of real news journalism, the active and vicious campaign against everything Obama (from the right and now from the left), and the broken legislature, I’m delighted with how much he is getting done.

    • Welcome, and yes, you would have problem fitting in over there since you’re a realist. (gasp!) 😀 For a site that used to claim it was “reality-based” it’s drifted far off that mooring, and is now adrift in the sea of unreality.
      I recognized long ago that there’s often a big difference between what you’d like to do and what you can do. So, while I may criticize the President on specifics, at the same time I’m very realistic about what he can do. Like you, I’ve been very pleased with what he has accomplished, despite not getting a hell of a lot of credit for it from the noisy purists.

    • TrumpDog

      “”Given the state that our country was left after the disaster of Bush, the dearth of real news journalism, the active and vicious campaign against everything Obama (from the right and now from the left), and the broken legislature, I’m delighted with how much he is getting done.””

      Indeed. The guy was handed shit before his first day of office, has dealt with unprecedented obstruction from one party and a media machine that thrives on controversy and discourse. The fact that anything got done is phenomenal. Yet the president gets NO credit for what he’s done right and all the blame when something goes wrong.
      I’m not always happy, but I do honestly feel the president is actually fighting for us. The right wingers have a concerted effort to take him down at any cost and to see the left pile on the way they have disgusts me.

  12. Chris Andersen

    I have been a regular reader of The DailyKOS since its version 1. I saw it rise from a minor blog to a force in the political world. And now I am seeing it self-destruct under the weight of its own hubris.

    Those of you who came later, especially in the last couple of years, may not fully appreciate just how important the Great Orange Satan was to those of us who were wondering in the political wilderness. When Bush’s popularity hit 90%, it felt really lonely to be one of those who said, “He wasn’t elected on 9/11 either.” The Daily KOS (and a few other blogs) gave us refuge and a place to realize that we were not alone and that we were not insane.

    Which is why it is sad to see dKos reduced to what it has become: a parody of the same single-issue/personality driven politics that Markos himself railed against back in the day.

    • I started reading there back in mid-2005, although I didn’t register until early 2008, so I do know what it was like then. I’ve been around the Internet a long time, and this is a pattern I’ve seen too many times before. The things that made DK what it was, and allowed it to have as much influence as it did were sacrificed to the altar of “purity” and “number of hits.” Am I saddened by it? Yes, but this goes directly on Kos, no one else. If you, as a site owner, are ignoring that many of your best-known contributors, along with the real experts, are leaving you or being driven off, it’s a big warning sign. That he did nothing to put a stop to it when he could have, and then his postings, just made it very clear where he’d made his bet.

      • Slownomad

        It appeared to me that Markos was a drive-by poster for the last year or so. Ever since he’d become the Media Pundit that he now is (even if he’s blacklisted, supposedly, on MSNBC.) I joined DKos in 2003-2004. Living in a Red State at the time, it made me feel connected to other like-minded Democrats and gave lots of good ideas for how to go forward. Now it’s trying desperately to tear down what we managed to achieve.

        • Markos is blacklisted at MSNBC, and for a very simple reason. He went over the line in attacking Joe Scarborough – and yes, I do know what he did – and instead of apologizing for it, doubled down on it. He thought he was immune. and MSNBC’s executives showed him he wasn’t.

          In my opinion, he became a big fish in a little pond, and mistook that for being a big fish in a much larger body of water – which he wasn’t. In a big lake, he’s just a bite-sized morsel for the big fish. 🙂

  13. juturna

    Very happy to have found you, Norbrook! Now instead of automatically clicking on DK each morning, there are a lot of great blogs to check out. Eclectablog, BWD’s, Blue Wave News, The Obama Diary, Deaniac83’s (The People’s View). Also enjoy Balloon Juice and Bob Cesca.

    I still go over there now and then just to see if TIMT posted so I can Rec it, also Kat4’s diaries. No withdrawal symptoms like I thought I’d have. Yech.

  14. Aquagranny911

    I lurked at Dk for quite a while starting during the ’08 election. It wasn’t until ’09 that I actually signed on and what caused me to do that was the P&W diaries.

    I lost one of my beloved cats in a very devastating way. I had rescued and bottle fed this cat from a very tiny kitten. My grief was terrible and the P&W diary folks understood. They gave me comfort, solace and humor. I found people there committed to animal welfare, to rescue and fostering of all creatures both great and small. This has been a life long cause for me.

    Black Kos, Tuesday’s Chile, Sistah Speak and BWD also kept me there. I enjoyed the cooking diaries and ecology as well. I consider the Haiti diaries a magnificent effort and was happy to be a part of that. Allie123 is still doing a stellar job to advocate and keep the plight of people of Haiti an issue there even though so many at DK have moved on.

    I thought the recent elections would quell the discord and get people together. For some of us it did. I so appreciated the help and encouragement from others doing GOTV, especially those of us in Red States and districts. Even when the going was tough we cheered each other on with: “Every vote counts. If we don’t win this time we will next time. Got to keep on keeping on.” I ignored any negativity and sought out those doing the real work of pounding the pavement and making the calls.

    After the election, it seemed that everything turned vicious, like a scorpion stinging itself to death and lashing out at anyone nearby. Certain people seemed to have a cadre of followers who dumped in any diary they didn’t like. The racist invective got more and more nauseating and overt. Then they drove BWD out. The absolute hatred spewed over her was just beyond my understanding. This is when I knew I had enough of DK.

    Then Deanic cross posted a diary there which got dumped on but I said to myself: “This person is rational, he’s making some valid points.” I followed him to ‘the people’s view’ found you Norbrook, BWD and so many others. People with a positive outlook, people with respect for each other’s opinions and life experience, people willing to work and not just talk about ways to make our country better.

    This is total gossip and speculation but I read recently, please don’t ask me where, that back during HRC debates MK planned to sell his site to FDL which is why he let the harpies take over. For what ever reason this didn’t happen or maybe it did and is just not public knowledge. This is all about the $$$, Norbrook. I really believe this. This is all about money and snaring the malcontents, the angermaniacs and maybe some real crazies into the site because they will enjoy sucking the venom like they would mother’s milk. I would not touch DK4 with a barge poll if I even owned such a thing.

    Sorry, just some random thoughts of mine and I guess I’m still weaning myself from there. It’s hard not to see the bad without grieving over some of the good.

    ♥ for all the animal pics, they do give me joy.

    • What kept me there as long as it did was the P&W community, and my work on the Haiti diaries. I’ve had to do some background work with allie123 on diary coding when one of the people who’d been doing it left – and my Google Docs account is still the primary code repository for those diaries.

      I’ve heard a few unsubstantiated rumors, about DK was possibly being sold to FDL, but that’s all they are, rumors. It doesn’t really matter, if you look at how Kos and Jane are intertwined everywhere else. There’s a nice little rather incestous circle of people who are on the same boards of directors of PACs and foundations. So that it’s just as easy to say that they decided on this course of action, simply because it “made sense” to them in their little circle.

    • ACD

      Another tidbit, but apparently this one was posted. One of the FPers admitted he and the FP crew are being urged by Mr M to be as incendiary as possible, because that correlates with traffic spikes. I would have suspended him if I were Kos for making an staff meeting agenda item public. But no surprise. No honor among thieves.

      • No apparently, it was. Brooklynbadboy. All it did was to confirm several of us’s suspicions. One of my hobbies (I’m a tech geek) is looking at various factors. What I saw very clearly was that DK’s “hits” went up during the poutrage wars over the HCR. Looking at it historically, the site traffic dropped like a stone after the election – almost a third less, and stayed that way. The HCR battles upped the hits back towards where they had been. Which Kos took as “outrage sells.”

        Now, it might work for the short term, but I have a feeling that in the longer term, it’s going to blow up in his face. Because the more his site (and him) head to the fringe, the more marginalized they become.

        • To gin up poutrage for the hits is bad business in my mind. When it burns out people just remember they were singed.

          When he started selling ads, he added staff and then when ad revenue dropped he did not want to change his business model.

          You are seeing the result.

          • I think it’s bad in the long run. Having ads is no big thing in my mind, because after all, someone has to pay the freight. That said, when you start getting into strictly “making more money” mode on a political site, you’re just begging for problems. Here’s what I mean:
            DK Traffic

            If you look at it, you see that when the HCR debates started, the traffic jumped. That’s why he let the frustrati take over.

        • janicket

          Well, he lost this several-year subscriber (ETF there, if anyone recognizes that; I posted cat-and-horsepix in the P&W diaries, and the rare odd diary itself) in disgust at the cesspit dKos has become. My auto-renewing subscription will NOT auto-renew in April since I went into my credit card account and cancelled it. One wonders how many others have done so, have quietly packed up and, sans GBCW diary, simply exited, pursued by a bare minimum of regret at what used to be.

          • I’d say it’s a considerable number. They like to tout the number of hits per month – which is a fairly impressive number – and the number of registered users, again, a fairly impressive numbers. What that doesn’t do is look at the number of people who are “drive-by’s” or just repeat viewers, and the percentage of the “registered users” who are actually visiting and participating. Reality, from looking at jotter’s numbers? Around 5% when I last looked. In other words, an average of12,500 users out of the total number are regular viewers and/or participants. What it means is that really, the majority if people who have ever signed up for an account there are not there. 🙂 I can say that my personal visits, such as they are, amount to maybe two or three times a month, and that’s usually because someone hit me on Twitter with a link which doesn’t identify it as a DK link. 🙄

    • Hi. aquagranny911

      I would miss the P&W diaries if I never ever went to DKos. I like the people in jotterville too.

      The rest I am learning to live without. When Morning Feature moved permanently to, there was not much reason to do much on DKos. I crosspost once in a while … when one of my DKos friends insists but there is no burning desire to be there.

      • I do miss them, but not enough to make me want to venture back into the swamp to see them. I made a special exception for the Pootie Queen’s birthday. 🙂

  15. cat48

    I’m still trying to figure out why he attacked BWD that way. He must have Obama Derangement Syndrome! Nobody cares about his sorry Salon blog which is often misleading & has eleventy gazillion updates, after he writes the initial post. I just find him tedious. Hamsher is despicable too.

    • As I said earlier, you have to look at the little circle he’s in. For example, Accountability Now PAC, where he is the treasurer, taking over from Jane Hamsher. Interestingly if you look at the filings, he’s DMDM Enterprises, and Webstrong and KSP all have the same mailing address as …. Jane Hamsher. Kos is also involved with it. So, if you’re trying to figure out why Glenn might decide to go after someone who was irritating Hamsher’s minions, well….

  16. ACD

    Folks – Look what Leanne of BWN has started!

  17. VotingPoet

    Thank gawd I’ve found everybody, mostly through BWD. I was at DK from almost the beginning. My VID over there is 1553. Never been much of a fighter and posted only a few diaries, a couple of my political poems. Anyway, So, so glad to be here. I am so tech challenged but have be watching the evolution of the web for a very long time, in the pc business in the early ’80’s. On inaug. day of ’01 I knew the web would be the only thing to save us in the Bush years. Obama never could have overcome the craven corrupt msm to get elected without the web. Keep it going. Peace, J

  18. Thanks for stopping into Norbrook, for sending revgerry our way who sent us here and to the Progressive News site. Now I am going to have to go to BWN.

    Seems like all the people I miss have found each other. Happy days are here again!!

  19. revgerry

    Hi Jan, aw, shucks, thanks. I am smiling all day long, I’m like a kid at Christmas. Progressives should be joy-filled, with plenty to spare.

    The IGTNT team will be discussing my request they start a new and separate IGTNT blog that can go into the PN aggregator and gain a wider audience …please keep your fingers crossed, it is an important community to the progressive movement as a whole and to me personally as a new Blue Star gramma.

  20. blackerberry

    Thank you Norbrook. I am so glad I found this site and some former DKos members. What a double-pleasure…no negativity and a good community of progressive (liberal) people.

  21. Bob

    Still have my ‘understandinglife’ account at the orange place – been there since 08/04 – but only visit now to rec diaries by folk who still take time to try to bring some reality and empathy to the place. But, since BWD started her blog and I began finding you, Norbrook, and several other truly worthwhile blogs – well, the tiny amount of time I have each day to track what the President is doing and what pragmatic liberals are doing is certainly not going to be spent clicking orange 🙂

    Happy New Year!